EN | CAT | ES

Interviewed September 20, 2017 for Catalunya Barcelona docuseries.

If you could explain us what’s the referendum?

The referendum? Depends.

Depends on for what social sector, depends on whether a part of that sector is mobilized or not, whether it is activated or not.

If they feel compelled to go vote or not.

It could decide the future. But not only Catalonia’s future, but Spain’s as well.

But always with shades. Because in a global society…

Well, capital has always been globalized. It has no frontiers. It’s investing everywhere, selling, dropping. People can’t move around without permits, without papers.

Capital nowadays you press a key on your computer and this house which now belongs to, I suppose, this man, maybe it’s been sold and he doesn’t know.

So, never completely.

We shouldn’t think that economic power will change hands, I don’t believe that.

Important economic power, oligarchies, the state grants for public works or airports or build more railroad tracks or schools or community health centers, etc.

All of this, which is where the big money is at, won’t change.

Well, at least I’m secular in that sense. My faith is limited.

How is related the referendum on the 1st of October with the autonomy statute approved in 2006?

Well, here’s where the downfall began.

I think that in this both PSOE and PP were wrong and didn’t accept a statute leaded by Pascual Maragall, back then president of the Generalitat. The triparty, which was [formed by] the PSC, Esquerra, Iniciativa per Catalunya back then.

Rodriguez Zapatero said, yes, I’ll accept the statute that comes from the parliament of Catalonia.

It turned out it wasn’t so. It was cut back, there was a collection of signatures by the PP which I think was one of their biggest mistakes, we’ll see in the next elections.

In that moment it gave them many votes, because anticatalanism, in some Spanish territories, gives you votes.

But as a political party, the ideologists of this party named ‘Partido Popular’, which comes ‘Alianza Popular’, created by Fraga Iribarne and the magnificent 7 who were ministers for Franco, let’s not get that wrong.

We shouldn’t get that wrong, they’re children of the dictatorship.

Of the bloody, hurtful, authoritarian, repressive and assassin dictatorship we suffered here for almost 40 years.

Catalonia and Spain, Spain and Catalonia, I’m not setting them apart in this.

So, if the statute that had been approved in Catalonia had been carried out, Catalonia would have more competences and maybe independentism wouldn’t have grown so much, I don’t know.

We won’t know now. The past conditions us, but we can make an analysis towards the present and the future.

And of course there’s a need to analyze the reasons why independentism is almost hegemonic, in number of seats in the parliament of Catalonia it already is.

You’ve now mentioned that the PP did this anticatalan policy which in other parts of Spain gives it many votes. It could be considered that the acts they are doing now regarding the referendum are boosting independentism here but are getting them more votes in other parts. Could you talk about this?

We will see. This will show in the next Spanish elections, because there have also been demonstrations and events and acts and conferences, there’s a movement elsewhere in Spain giving support to Catalonia, to what’s happening here.

The legal actions, judicializing politics so much, using judges so much. Judges who, anyway, are also the children or grandchildren of Francoism. I mean, here we suffer from an issue that is that the dictator died in his bed.

Franco died in his bed.

From a natural illness. The clandestine forces who were fighting against Francoism, against the dictatorship, we weren’t enough nor did we have enough strength during the transition to impose certain conditions.

That it was an, as I call it, hygienic democracy, neat, that it at least complied with the parameters of the consolidated European democracies.

The thing is that here, the police officers who were abusing before the transition, the transition law. Which was actually a transaction of interests among political parties, etc.

The same police officers who abused, after a month, were democratic police officers, and that can’t work, it’s unviable.

It is something unviable.

That was another one of our mistakes. At least in Portugal, the country besides us, the PIDE, the political police, in the Carnation Revolution had to flee the country.

They entered Extremadura, Andalusia, because here there was still the dictatorship.

But not us, we couldn’t even do that.

And on the 81, there’s a coup leaded by Tejero and blessed by many social sectors.

In Spain there have been few committed anti-Francoism people.

In Spain and in Catalonia as well.

The thing is that in Catalonia there was a maybe bigger resistance due to the language ban.

Which caused a catalanism for identity to appear.

Identity, culture and language.

This has been the speech, up until two years ago, prevalent in independentism.

Two years ago, with culture, language and identity they were only a strong core, but it needed widening.

And the tale now isn’t so much about identity, language isn’t dealt with as much nor is culture, because of course, culture is so globalized, there’s freedom of thought, etc.

You can be Catalan and you can like rock’n’roll, which is Anglo-Saxon.

I mean, all this is… The issue here is the economic matter.

It is the economic issue which the basque had already solved when the coup happened, the carlists, Alabese and Navarrese imposed to Franco that if they granted him support on the 36’ coup, in February, the 18th of July of the 36’, February is when the ‘Frente Popular’ won – a center-left coalition, it wasn’t something that revolutionary.

So they gave support so that he’d maintain the Basque law.

The diputations of Alaba and Navarra would collect the taxes and they are administered there.

During the transition, Guipuzcoa and Vizcaya ask for the same.

That’s why sometimes the Basque government doesn’t care about when PP and PSOE have ruled, because the money is controlled by the regional diputations. And in Navarra it is the same.

Know what I mean? Here there are several parameters with which to deal.

I always repeat that nowadays we are suffering the consequences of a transition that was a landmark, was worshipped, was praised, but it’s been seen that after 40 years we still don’t know where our dead are.

The generalitat passed a law through the Catalan parliament that said that the referendum would be binding and a unilateral declaration of independence should be made during the first 48 hours after the yes victory. What does this mean?

This is very difficult.

Very complex.

Let’s see, it will depend on the conditions those of us who will go to vote can go, in the sense of what you’ll find in the electoral college, how will it work, how it will be recounted, etc.

And the turnout.

If there’s a high turnout and the no vote blooms, because the yes vote will obviously be there.

But the no vote, since Ciudadanos, People’s Party and PSC or PSOE say it is illegal, it has stuck.

It has stuck in a lot of people.

Then, they don’t want to do anything illegal.

It’s astonishing, but that’s how it is.

It’s a fact, this discourse has stuck.

There’s people who don’t want to take part. I talk to them and say, dude, go and vote no.

Because you are a vote for the no. No, no, no, I’m not going because it’s illegal.

This idea has really stuck.

Why? Because there’s still the fear in those people who have been told by their parents, by their grandparents, that it was illegal to fight against Franco.

Figthing against power. Against Francoist power, against the dictatorship, it was illegal.

Some of us got involved and ended up in prison and suffered tortures and were kicked out of our jobs, etc.

But most of the people didn’t.

So, now this issue, when Franco said, before I die, I’ll leave all loose ends tied up, he left tied up all the loose ends of fear.

The fear…

There’s people who aren’t afraid, but there’s others who are.

And so, it’s been sold that it’s illegal – I don’t want to get into this topic, because not too long ago, here in Spain, it was illegal to abort.

A few decades ago, women had no right to vote.

A few years ago the military service was compulsory.

And if you made a conscientious objection, the first who did it went straight to jail.

I mean, breaking the rules of the game, if you see that they go against the human rights, us human being have a chance to do it.

But, there’s people who don’t want to set foot over the red line established by some laws drawn upon a constitution that 60% of the people who live in Spain or were born in Spain haven’t voted for.

This should be brought up too, because even the king, the Bourbon, Felipe or his father Juan Carlos, was an imposition of Francoism.

It was an imposition of the dictatorship.

And the leftist parties that came out of hiding accepted it.

And that means accepting too a non-reconciliation.

Because the reconciliation would have been to recognize the dead.

The dead that after the civil war were killed by the dictatorship and its accomplices.

To void all the extremely summary trials that were carried out.

Many issues.

Many issues.

The radical right, during the Spanish transition, called Spanish, was out and about and killed the lawyers of Atocha.

A Lieutenant Colonel in Almería and his gang, killed five youths who were going to a wedding, in the province of Almería.

There were dead during the transition here, in the electric plant in Sant Adrià.

In the SEAT they came in and there were casualties too.

I mean of course, all of this isn’t explained, because if it had been explained in schools, in high-schools, maybe now there would be many people who saw this struggle in Catalonia for a separate state, they’d see it as I do, as a fight against Francoism.

A fight against Francoism and for the money that is generated in Catalonia so that the poverty in Catalonia, about a million people are in the poverty threshold, isn’t like it is.

It’s not something of a handful, there’s many people committed to this movement.

The thing is that it either hasn’t been explained well or there’s the north-south dichotomy, the south poor and the north rich, we are sometimes compared with the Italian Lega Nord.

There are places in Spain where they still think that everyone in Catalonia is rich.

And that’s false, it’s false.

And they think that independence is being done by the rich, when actually those with economic power in Catalonia are against it.

Against it are them and lots of vulnerable people.

Many people, from the working class, agree because it’s illegal according to those who are, and have always been, in power.

In Spain and Catalonia.

That’s a huge contradiction.

Because this is what Pujol wanted.

He said no, social classes aren’t important here, what’s important is culture, cultural differences.

No, to me what’s important are social differences.

This is the issue.

To me.

Regarding what you’ve mentioned about the constitution, in international media it’s often brought up that the 48’ constitution, which says that Spain is one, great and free, was voted and supported from Catalonia. What do you think are missing this international media about this constitution?

It’s a constitution that was made under military control.

They don’t understand that in the Spanish state there are four clear nations: Galicia, Basque Country and Navarra, Catalonia, Spain – the rest. And watch out, because in Andalusia there’s a residue and there are intelectuals – who were also killed during the dictatorship, at the beginning of the civil war like Blas infant, etc. – that there’s an awareness, in part of the Andalusian society, of being a nation.

So, they continued with Franco’s one, great and free in the constitution that was agreed upon.

What did the left coming out of hiding agree? Because of the little strength it had. It had no strength.

Adolfo Suarez’ ‘Unión de Centro Democrático’, wins in the first elections of 77’ for the Congress in Madrid.

It was a party made out of what were called the regime’s liberals.

But they had all been public workers, they all had been people living from the money they got from the state.

From grants, from the perks of the state.

So, it was a constitution made in fear of the military.

There’s also that those of us who had been in hiding were tired, and maybe said, well that’s enough, it’s enough and we let it be. At least we have a right to demonstration, we can have a right to strike, the freedom of expression, we won’t be arrested.

We were very tired, you know what I mean?

Lots of people gave it up.

Others went into politics for a living, but many of us who fought against the Francoist dictatorship didn’t imagine that we could make a living out of politics.

We did it because we were anti-Francoists, against the dictatorship, but we didn’t imagine making a job out of politics.

And those who did imagine it, put it into practice.

Basically it was all the leaders of all the political parties and small groups. Five people were enough to set up a clandestine cell, I mean.

And many went straight to the PSOE.

During the dictatorship, the PSOE barely existed.

They held a congress in Suresnes, France, where Felipe González and Alfonso Guerra took the power.

They moved Rodolfo Llopis aside and it was already a PSOE that, above all, the intention of the American CIA and the German social democracy, which put into it a lot of money, was so that the communist party, the party of Santiago Carrillo, Dolores Ibarruri, etc….

…who had leaded the anti-francoist fight in hiding, wouldn’t win.

And it was so.

First party, a party out of the regime, UCD the 77. Second party, PSOE.

And I’m talking about the communist party from a point of view which isn’t very keen to the communist ideals since I come from the libertarian sphere, but I’m telling history as well as I can.

From the 20th of September on, Catalan people have basically taken the streets. Can you tell us why?

Well, there’s a mix.

There’s those who take the streets because they consider that arresting public workers, arresting public offices, hand out fines, bringing the Guardia Civil, bringing more Police forces, all this goes against the freedom of speech, against the right to protest.

There’s also people who take the streets because they are fed up with the PP, because it is clear that Mariano Rajoy is in the statements of many people when you… [ask them] No, I want this.

And then there’s a lot of people, an important groups of people who will vote the 1st of October yes and who wants independence, to form a separate state.

There’s a conjunction on interests that cause a blooming of this awareness, and this taking the streets, so to say.

To take the squares and do like, not long ago, did the Arab revolutions.

It also reminds of the 15M in a way.

What I notice is that I don’t see the working class mobilize.

I’m simply saying this as something that I find odd, it surprises me.

I don’t see the trade unions declare a general strike.

For example.

Which is what really hurts.

The majority trade unions are part of the system.

They are the system.

So they did take the street and made statements, but those are employees who work for the trade unions UGT and ‘Comisiones Obreras’, who work for the trade union and freed people who receives money from the trade union took the streets.

But they haven’t said, this day there’s a general strike for freedom.

They haven’t said it and I doubt they will.

What are the measure taken by the central government to prevent the referendum?

They are all measures of a legal kind, a legalist kind, relating to the rules and the administration. There are no political measures, no way to reach an agreement or establishing a negotiating table.

It’s all bam, bam, bam, it’s illegal, illegal, illegal.

The constitutional court, by the way very manipulated and a court made out of people the ancestors of who had been part of Fuerza Nueva, the radical Spanish right.

Now come up names and surnames that were already in certain power positions.

But they were also there when the PSOE was there.

There has been no breakup.

The problem here is that we went from a repressive, hurtful and lead-based dictatorial system to a democracy where the appearances were kept but there were some issues that had been agreed upon and couldn’t be changed.

They couldn’t be changed and haven’t been changed.

And it’s been 40 years, from the 77 to the 2017.

They couldn’t be changed.

So this chance at a breakup with Catalonia could be the way so that there’s a breakup in the rest of Spain.

Maybe what’s happening in Catalonia is better from Spain than for Catalonia itself.

We’ll see about it.

We will see as long as we know to fight like Gandhi.

Under pacifism, non-violence, etc.

Undercover agents in the independentist movement.

The most radicals, the most radicals in the independentist movements have undercover agents, and those are working for the police. These are the ones who will cause and will talk about causing mayhem, breaking store windows, burning cars.

For the homeland.

The homeland’s saviors.

Among the homeland saviors there’s people in the service of the CNI, in the service of the police, in the service of the Guardia Civil.

Let’s not forget that those of us who lived in hiding lived this closely.

The most radical one, the first to take the flag – and especially in the libertarian world, where there was the Scala case about which we talked the other day and is all in the newspapers libraries.

The Scala case was a clear case of trying to undo the CNT in Catalonia.

It was undone all of a sudden.

It as an undercover agent.

Straight from the Government of Interior [and Justice].

The 78, 1978.

Let’s not forget that all this has to be done calmly, with civility, and having peace as a cornerstone.

We will demonstrate, and if I Guardia Civil officer comes to…

I mean, it hurts more a picture of a Guardia Civil officer pushing you or hitting you with the nightstick than the other way around.

We need to keep absolute calm and answer to no taunt.

Taunts are against peace, and peace is the basic cornerstone of cohabitation.

Could you tell us what are the Mossos d’esquadra and the Guardia Civil? And what’s their relation now with the referendum?

This is one of the keys from now to the 1st of October.

Why is it for me the key? Because these are two armed forces.

The moment there’s an row between the Mossos d’Esquadra and the Guardia Civil, mind you, here are already some but in offices and are, even if they were in the street, in a civilized way and not trying to taunt or provoke, I think there can be a friendly understanding that makes the respect between these two forces help not to create conflict.

The moment a bullet is shot from one side or the other, this can all get very difficult.

I pray to nature and to everyone that this doesn’t happen.

Because if it does happen, we’re going to a really tough situation, unwanted and which would be against peace, about which I’ve talked before.

The Mossos d’Esquadra existed before, but they are consolidated starting with the self government of Catalonia, and I think it’s about 17.000 officers in Catalonia, approximately.

The Guardia Civil had been in Catalonia with the Policia Nacional, but the politically involved anti-Francoist sectors regarded them as an invading army.

We need to keep in mind that some, I don’t know how many, but there was a percentage of Policía Nacional and Guardia Civil agents that when they had the chance to become Mossos d’Esquadra, they did so.

Why? Because they already had rots here, they had their family here, their children went to school here, etc.

They didn’t want to move to another Spanish autonomous community.

I don’t know the percentage, I don’t know the portion, but this is also a detail to keep in mind.

Of course, there needs to be coordination among them.

But not only now because of the 1st of October, it should be… [always]

But this doesn’t happen, because the ‘Junta de Seguretat [de] Catalunya’, which would be the body through which they exchange information, is barely ever convened.

So they are like hermetic compartments.

But I don’t think that the arrival of the Guardia Civil and the Policía Nacional and these rumors that are around…

That they come to Catalonia massively, 4.000, 5.000, 6.000, I don’t kknow the number, I think that they will inflame the issue and people will get angrier.

Those who are pissed off will be more so and possibly those who are inactive will jump to action.

Because their democratic conscience will tell them that they need to do something.

They could do nothing too, but I don’t know if that, when it’s bedtime, will allow you to sleep soundly or you spend all day thinking, wondering, damn, what do I do, what should I do?

Do I defend freedom? Do I not? Do I trust this one? Or the other one? What’s going on?

Well, shit, you listen to Saez de Santamaría, Dolores de Costpedal, Rajoy, and the spokespeople of the People’s Party talk.

And also other characters, leaders too, from the PSOE, and you think, shit, there’s no getting them out of the constitution.

The constitution can be changed too. It can be changed perfectly.

I there was a chance to do it.

The statute, actually, the statute leaded in 2006 by the parliament of Catalonia, the triparty leaded by Pascuall Maragall, was what it attempted.

Go towards a federal state starting with the Catalonia’s statute reform.

This was cut short by the constitutional court, the signs that the PP collected around Spain, half a million I think.

And that has pissed off part of the Catalan society, who wouldn’t have moved, but it has happened.

And since it has happened, we can’t go back.

Now we need to face it and see what happens the 1st.

Let’s see the turnout, let’s see if the no blooms.

If it does, people would know what these three parties who were telling people not to participate were up to.

Maybe these parties will be trapped in their own corpus, in their own cuirass.

But, I don’t know.

I don’t know if the no will bloom, because these three forces have said that since it is illegal, people shouldn’t take part.

Well, we’ll see.

How would you say is different the referendum of the 1st of October with what happened in 2014?

The 2014 [the referendum] took place the 9th of November.

And the 9th of November people took the streets partly to celebrate that I was turning 60.

Part of the people took the streets because they found out there was a weird dude who was up to no good, named Lluís Cabrera, who wanted to celebrate his 60th birthday.

Jokes aside, it was very important that 2.300.000 people went out and…

Some say it was a [botifarrada], others that they held a party.

They can say what they want, but there was a mobilization, people could vote and it was shown that there were, I think, almost 2 million who said yes and 300.000 votes that said no.

It is possible that the 1st of October we will find the same, that there will not be enough strength to impose a unilateral disconnection.

Depends on the turnout.

And especially it depends on whether the no votes or not, because if only the yes votes, we won’t have counted.

In a referendum, you need to count both the yes and the no.

So many yes, so many no.

If this doesn’t happen, it could be the 9N all over again but on the 1st of October.

It fits, it was the 9N which is the same date that in 1898 the Berlin wall falls.

The Berlin wall fell in November 1989.

It has a significance.

And this is the 1-O.

It’s like a 1 and the O which looks like a 0, that we’ll win one to zero.

But winning one to zero isn’t much.

It’s almost, it’s not a draw but it isn’t much, we need to win by more.

Who is Carles Puigdemont and what’s his role in the referendum?

Carles Puigdemont, who was the one to substitute Artur Más who was actually voted, hasn’t been voted for yet in elections.

He said that he wouldn’t run again whatever the situation after the 1st of October.

But he’s a man who said that he was leading the coalition of Junts pel Sí, of the old Convergència and Esquerra Republicana, Junts pel Sí.

And with the support of the CUP, with issues and as many problems as you’d like, but they’ve been able to keep a unity that has brought us to the current situation.

He’s someone that has accomplished what he said, and the order of Junts pel Sí was that.

So, he’s someone who has leaded and has delivered, so I consider him someone honest.

And he’s the president of the Generalitat of Catalonia, my country.

Because I’m from here because I’m registered in the census here.

Born in Jaen, a town in Jaen named Arbuniel, but I’m from here because I’m registered here, that’s all.

You are registered in the census of a town, a city, a capital of Catalonia and, politically, you are Catalan because you exercise your political rights here, it’s as simple as that.

I don’t wonder anything else, where you were born, what music you like, if it’s Catalan or not, the culture, this, that, the language.

I’ve always expressed myself in Catalan and Spanish, I switch between languages easily.

I mean, I’ve never had issues with this in Catalonia.

Nobody has called me a xarnego or has insulted me for speaking Spanish.

But after three years, I got here when I was 9, when I was 12 in Nous Barris, the neighborhood of Verdum, Roquetes.

I talk [Catalan] because in the jobs I’ve had people spoke to me in Catalan and I learned despite that in that time, we’re talking about the 64, it was banned, but people spoke it at home and in shops.

I worked in wineries and bars, and people came and asked for a ham sandwich so I answered in Catalan.

History isn’t so lineal, it’s rather complex.

Reality is polyhedral.

It’s polyhedral, everything has…

The shades are very important. Very important.

And maybe now we lack shades.

But the situation is such that it has reached this point, there are no shades.

There can’t be shades, you need to decide.

Could you tell us who Mariano Rajoy is and what’s his role in the referendum?

I think that he’s one of the people who has created more independentists in Catalonia and that he has manipulated, consciously, he and all his advisors, all of this illegality discourse.

[unintelligible] the constitution, constitutions are flexible.

You transfer some competences to the Catalan Parliament, the Catalan Parliament agrees by majority that there will be a referendum and, probably, with an agreed referendum – a few years back, I’m not sure now – with the agreement of the Congress and the Catalan Parliament, from both governments, probably the no would have won.

Because this has already happened in Scotland and has happened in Quebec.

So I think that the People’s Party, since it had inside all this Francoist mindset and part of the radical right inside, this man has been unable to assemble a center-right party like, for example, Merkel’s party or like other parties that call themselves Christian democrats or social democrats who try to dialogue from the very beginning.

Without conditions.

But the constitution is sacred, it cannot be changed and the ‘Una, Grande i Libre’ is the Spanish feeling that people from my generation and older have been drinking in their school education.

When I listen to this man talking, what I see is a grandchild or a child of Francisco Franco Bahamonde.

I mean, that’s how it is.

He’s unflexible.

It’s something like a robot. He talks like a robot.

I feel bad for Galicians, because I have many Galician friends and all, but shit.

Franco was Galician and so was Rajoy.

Damn, I mean…

I feel bad, because the Galician people also have a great national feeling.

Fraga Iribarne was Galician too.

What’s your take on the District attorney having pressed charges against the organizers of the protests here in Barcelona?

It’s a… to me it’s a mistake, it’s stupid and it will bring trouble.

It will bring trouble and if people from here, those who will get moving, this constant movement that the ANC and Òmnium have made sure it’s like this, if calm and civility and peace and non-violence are maintained, I think that it make no sense.

It makes no sense because it’s an act that cuts the self-government, it cuts even shorter the already cut statute, it’s being cut even shorter and we don’t know who rules here anymore. The economy department accounts are intervened.

If they are intervened you no longer depend from your autonomic government, but rather from centralism.

I think that we’ve taken a step back.

And the surnames of certain people who are carrying out this kind of order with the obvious consent of Mariano Rajoy, are people with a really tough past.

Very tough for those of us who are still anti-Francoists.

This is very difficult to explain.

If Franco has died, how can you be anti-Francoist? No, he tied up all the loose ends.

And since he tied up all the loose ends, as an anti-Francoist I face what the Francoists, or those who act as such, say.

Do you think that there’s people who see the attempt as a referendum as an act of pure politics? That is, just doing the referendum not because they want independence but rather for having fought for the cause.

I don’t know, I think that in the XXI century, wanting to be a martyr is something from the past.

The saviors of the homeland and all that, I’ve already mentioned it.

I think that people are true and everyone has their point of view and is honest.

There could be people who are just trying to make sure that if Catalonia becomes independent they get a good salary.

It’s probable, because us human being are all very complex and we don’t fully know, when we go this or that way, why we do it.

I believe in the good faith of people, I think that if you don’t trust anyone you’re left alone.

And to be alone, you might as well go to the
Black Forest in Germany, they recently held elections and the radical right got it.

German, I mean…

Let’s not screw around, they’re the third force.

Last one already. How will people be able to vote? Because to even know where you have to go, they keep opening websites, but they take them down shortly after.

No, but they open them continuously.

Everyone who wants to go to vote, already knows the electoral college where they have to go, that’s clear.

And there, in the electoral colleges, there will be ballots and envelopes.

Yes, because social networking isn’t what it used to.

You’re young, I don’t know.

It makes it all easier.

You shut down a website and there are 200 opening in an instant.

This is an issue of technological development, how do you hope to stop it?

You can’t stop it.

You can’t, it’s impossible.

You find yourself in the electoral college with a queue of 1.000. What do you do? Wait.

Or will they send 1.000 police officers to keep you from entering? Or will they ask for an ID to know if you’ve gone there or not?

Maybe people won’t want to give their ID and will said, I’m going back home and not voting?

We don’t know what can happen, because fear…

Look, fear is free.

Fear is truly free.

Every human being buys the kilos and tons that they need at every moment.

Right now, fear is present in this situation, and maybe there will be people on the 1st of October who leave home all cool with their family or friends, go to vote and then will find a wall of other human beings dressed as police officers or Guardia Civil or Mossos [d’Esquadra].

That they ask for your ID before you go in and maybe there will be people who isn’t willing.

It’s possible.

Fear is free, and can be bought for free.

You don’t need to pay to be afraid, it’s an inner matter.

So, you buy.

You buy a kilo, buy half a kilo or buy a ton.

And in front of a ton of fear, you go back home.

You go home, turn on the tv and say, well, I’ll find out on tv about what’s going on, but no police officer is going to be controlling my ID, because who knows what could happen later.

The memory that we have been told about by our grandparents, about the civil war, there’s people who think that it is the same situation.

It’s not the same, because on the 36 a great part of the Spanish people was suffered from famine and were illiterate.

In 2017 we leave in a welfare state.

With many people who have it tough, in the threshold of poverty, etc.

School failure, etc.

But it’s not the same situation.

We’re consumers.

We’re people who consume according to the money we have.

But everyone consumes.

Some, a bit, too little, too much, a lot.

It’s very different.

The welfare state however, is considered by some thinkers as the ‘badfare’ state.

Because psychiatrists and psychologists had never had as much work as they do now.

Well, these workers need to work too.

This is the issue, that at the end of the month those who work can receive our pay.

And those who don’t, we need to help so that they have money.

There needs to be a money movement so that they can consume too.

Because otherwise factories, retailers, distributors, shops, would feel it.

And everything would go back.

It’s very difficult this complex capitalist system that has turned all the people into consumers.

Then, we are all consumed together.